Paul asks…
Coal vs. Gas (Electric Cars vs. Internal Combustion Engine)?
We were discussing the electric car vs. gas car. Everyone was so excited (ok, maybe not the correct word) about the electric car. When asked if they might use electricity car, a lot of people shot up their hands and I was like, hmm! I didn’t speak out because I wanted to do more research about it.
I was surprised when nobody brought up where electricity comes from. Coal. Zero emissions? Are you kidding me? The electric car is just another way of masking the problem. The people don’t see it and they forget about where we get the energy from.
I was studying the efficiency of coal. It was definitely less than 20%. I don’t have any notes on it anymore but I think it’s less than 10 or 5 percent efficient after all the refining (and the energy they use to produce it and make it usable) they have to do. What I do remember is that I was ASTOUNDED at how low coal’s efficiency was. We went through all the processes it went through and how much energy it lost in each process (in heat, light, sound, etc.) up til the end when it became electricity.
So I guess my two main questions are:
How efficient is coal – after all the processing they do in order to make it usable? (and how much would it take to run a car for 100km perhaps)
How efficient is gas – after all the processing they do in order to make it usable? (and how much would it take to run a car for 100km perhaps)
And compare them by their greenhouse gas emissions? With the amount of coal needed to run an electric car for 100km, and the amount of gas needed to run a regular gasoline car, which would produce more greenhouse gas emissions?
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Of course, if there were more of the other alternative energy such as nuclear, hydro, solar and wind, electric cars would be a better choice BUT for now, coal produces the majority of our electricity.
admin answers:
The efficiency of coal fired power plants is about 30%, 2.1 lbs of CO2 is generated from every kwh being produced. In charging a battery and energy transfer, the loss is 90%, when the power from the battery is being used, there is only 72% efficiency. So for that single kwh produced, we also produce 2.1 lbs of CO2. But that 1kwh only reaches the battery at .9kwh, then when it is converted into motion we have .65kwh remaining.
Assuming that a gasoline car is able to get 25 miles per gallon.
One gallon of gasoline is able to produce 36.6 kWh/US gallon.
That when converted into motion in cars, there is only 20% efficency. So that results in a transfer of only 7.32kwh for one gallon. The carbon dioxide output for the combustion of one gallon of gasoline is 2421grams (2.421 kg -> 5.34 lbs carbon per gallon) 5.34 lbs of carbon has not been converted into CO2 yet, so the conversion results in 19.5lbs of CO2 per gallon of gasoline.
19.3lbs*.65kwh/2.1lbs = 6.03kwh electricity
6.03kwh of electricity will produce the same amount of carbon dioxide emissions as does gasoline.
6.03kwh/7.32kwh*100 = 82.4% as carbon efficient as gasoline. Assuming that all of the energy used to power the electric car comes from coal.
That calculation shows that electric generation by coal is not as efficient as using gasoline, but we need to take into account one more factor.
The United States uses 21.2% of the world’s oil, in order to get this oil, we ship it all across the world. We produce about 5% of the world’s supply, so in order to get 75% of the oil that we do use, we import it. In order to import it, ships travel across the oceans to deliver our oil. After it arrives, large portions are considered waste when it comes to gasoline refining. During the process, electricity, and fuel are consumed, putting even more carbon emissions into the sky. So at the end of the day, burning that coal is actually more carbon efficient than that gasoline that we are putting into our tanks. Further compounding this is the fact that not all of our electricity is being produced by coal. Some is being produced by oil, some is produced by nuclear. 30.8% of our electricity is being produced by coal, 6% by petroleum, 40.8% by natural gas, 10% nuclear, 7.5% hydro electric, the remaining is other renewables/gasses. If you take into account all combusting methods of electricity generation, the efficiency rating rises from 30% for coal to an over all efficiency rating of 40%. With this kind of efficiency rise, and after adding nuclear power, hydroelectric, and other renewables, it becomes clear that electricity will beat out gasoline in carbon efficiency.
The average price of electricity in the United States is $0.09 per kwh. If you make the calculation, thats about $1.01 to travel the 25 miles that one gallon of gasoline can travel. With gasoline prices at $3.50 a gallon, electricity begins to make allot more sense.
Sandra asks…
im looking for a like a mini electric car for me to ride like to my friends house or something?
you know those mini cars that are for kids that go like 2 – 3 mph. they sell em at toys r us.
well im looking for something like that but that goes like 30 – 40 mph.
or a fast electirc scooter.
im 13.
almost 14.
and i want the electric car to be bigger. and have more room
admin answers:
You will be too big for them you know
Mark asks…
What are some kid cars for teens?
You know those small cars that are electric that children would love to “drive” in when they were so small? Well, are there some for teens?
admin answers:
Hahaha!
Dude if you dnt drive i guess get a quad thts similiar lol.
Donald asks…
Where in Toronto, or Canada, can I buy a battery for a kid’s electric car?
Specifically, I’m looking for a 3 FM 10 battery. I have been through pages of US websites, but only one ships to Canada, for $55 for a $11 battery.
admin answers:
Have you tried Toys R Us?
David asks…
What are some good movies that teach about the earth, environment, etc?
You know, like Fern Gully – or Who Killed the Electric car… but for kids under 12.
Jewel and Travis – note under 12. I highly doubt an 8 yr old is going to find Al Gore all that appealing to watch —- no matter how much we like it. HA!
admin answers:
Captain planet, he’s my hero, gonna take pollution down to zero! Are those cartoon’s in a box set? Has he seen happy feet? Free willy??? Lol….hmmm…….what else, I was so thinking fern gully, but you remembered fern gully already.hmmm……I can’t think of any more.
Lisa asks…
Can I put a 12v car battery in a kids electric jeep?
I was recently given two electric ride on toys for kids. Both a beat up pretty bad but the motors work, batteries don’t. The factory batteries are expensive sooooo…. I was wondering if a car/atv/motorcycle/ battery would work? The originals were 12v. I do know there is a safety issue as far as liquid acid from gel acid but I have a container solution for that. I’m more curious about it exploding,lighting on fire or another unforeseen issue. Any thoughts before I try it? Don’t answer if you are going to say ” don’t ever use anything but factory approved blah blah blah..” These are junk and the ” you cant do that ” crowd does not interest me unless it is backed up by scientific fact. Kids will not be driving these either. Any other junk yard tinkerers out there with some sage words of advice?
12v all the way, not Power Wheels plus the batteries are clearly labeled. Gotta say I love the actual experience with the John deer. Like it was brought up do u know if he had a problem with the battery lasting over multiple charges?
admin answers:
Yes it will work for sure. My father inlaw has a john deere toy tractor for his nieces that runs on a car battery. That thing runs for ever too instead of the 15-20 minutes the factory battery is good for. Just every once in a while you will have to hook it up to a car battery charger. They can be expensive, hope you have one. The kids will love you for it. Lol. Good luck.
Michael asks…
Is The Electric Car Concept Just A Smokescreen?
Is the electric car concept being vaunted through the media just a smokescreen by government to cloak the reality? Isn’t the concept fundamentally flawed and can the public see through this?
For example, it takes about 2 minutes to fill your petrol/gas tank. How long will it take to recharge a massive car battery? Can’t see anyone doing that at a filling station.
Secondly, even if you can charge at home how expensive is that going to be with electricity bills? Imagine your kids recharging their car every night. Your house will go into meltdown.
That’s why I think the idea is just a diversionary tactic by government to cover up their ineptitude when it comes to tackling environmental issues.
What do you think?
Edit: Thanks for contirbutions. Helen your thoughts spurred the original question. While I want to see manaufacturing jobs created in unemployment blackspots like the North East, any government intervention needs to provide value for the taxpayer.
Another point made about increased coal burning at power stations to facilitate increase electricity usage is perhaps the most important point since
this will likely increase carbon emissions.
On a practical issue; It takes me 8 hours to recharge 4 AA batteries. How long will it take to recharge a car and can domestic electricity supplies cope with the load factor? Will this mean every house would need re-wired? How much would that cost and how do folk in high rise flats recharge their cars?
admin answers:
I think your question is brilliant! We aren’t being given any ‘green’ figures for this and i wonder why? I see Nissan are investing in a major battery plant up North and have got to wonder why and who is paying for their interest in this as they received millions of taxpayers money years ago to open a car plant there. Are we continuing to support them financially too with ‘inward investment’ ?
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